“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.” —
G.K. Chesterton
The United States has long voiced support for international law and human rights. These espoused values foster peace, security and rule of law. Such concepts enhance the spread of democracy.
But during the George W. Bush Administration, the use of torture did great damage to the way the U.S. is viewed. And it made our country less, not more, secure. When we think of Reagan’s description of our country as “a shining city on a hill,” when we hear chants of “U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.,” when we see the American flag, or consider the U.S. Constitution, do we think of the horrors perpetrated in our country’s name during the Bush years? Are we proud that Vice President Dick Cheney and President George W. Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Legal Adviser John Yoo can’t travel to France, Germany, Switzerland or Spain without risking detention and prosecution?
Do we want to return to torture? Trump says yes. Clinton says no.
Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo have been well documented as sites of U.S. torture. Examples included waterboarding – the forcing of detainees to inhale water – confinement to boxes the size of coffins, sleep deprivation for four days, shackling in painful positions. Unsanctioned, but carried out, tortures included sodomizing detainees, threatening to sexually abuse the relatives of detainees, and freezing to death a detainee chained naked to a cold floor overnight.
Federal Order 13491 bans the use of torture by the U.S. government. This came after the end of the Bush years. Torture is no longer sanctioned by the U.S. But we now have a Republican candidate, one who seeks the election to the presidency of the United States, who says he would reinstate torture, and he would look for torture methods “a lot worse than waterboarding. It wouldn’t bother me even a little bit.” He said this in the Republican candidate’s debate, and he emerged as the nominee of the Republican Party.
I’ll leave it to ethicists and theologians to comment on the morality of torture – at least for now. But why would we want to employ a method that is ineffective, and harmful to our national interests?
General Stanley McCrystal said in a 2013 interview, “The thing that hurt us more than anything else in the war was Abu Ghraib. The Iraqi people felt it was proof positive that the Americans were doing exactly what Saddam Hussein had done, and that it was proof everything bad they thought about Americans was true.”
China’s state news agency asked, “How long can the US pretend to be a champion of human rights?” after the release of the “2014 Senate Report on Torture”.
While providing our enemies with ammunition in the form of argument that we were bad actors, we concurrently harmed relationships with our allies. The Dutch joined us as allies in Afghanistan – but only after assurances that we were no longer using torture. The British released an enemy combatant in Basra, Iraq, because they did not have detention facilities, and did not trust U.S. forces to treat the detainee humanely. Several countries cited our use of torture as cause for diminished relationships, and decreased cooperation, including Australia, United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand, France, Switzerland, Ireland, and Finland. India’s Chief Minister Modi, following U.S. reaction to the Hindu/Muslin riots, said the U.S. “was guilty of horrific human rights violations and thus has no moral basis to speak of such matters.”
As has been well known to the FBI for some time, and more recently by the CIA, rapport building techniques are more effective, and yield more dependable information. Senator John McCain, AZ (R), could speak to this from first-hand experience – having been tortured while a POW. Rapport building is humane, legal, and effective. What it fails to do is provide a measure of vengeance, which sometimes seems to override the desire to gain valuable intelligence.
Having been in combat, seen friends killed and wounded, I understand this mode of response. But understanding it as an emotional reaction does not make it right. Nor does it make it effective, much as it may be wished so.
There are many reasons to reject Trump’s candidacy. He’s uninformed, uncurious, ill-read, untruthful, and, as he showed with Trump University, grossly immoral. But his willingness to promote torture, as shown by his own words, is sufficient to me to back, without hesitation, Mrs. Clinton.
“The United States has long voiced support for international law and human rights. These espoused values foster peace, security and rule of law. Such concepts enhance the spread of democracy.” ……….All I can say to that statement is “How is that working so far?” Jihadists cut off heads, drown captives in steel cages, indiscriminately kill women and children and last but not least, Democracy is being mocked and being taken advantage of. We must first realize that we are dealing with savages and Madmen, not people that give a damn about being civil and humane. If our society decides to lower itself to the level of participation in war, it must also accept that they must also lower our level of humanity to achieve a quick and victorious end to any physical combat.
Hugging a Jackass will not prevent getting kicked by that animal and the poem Trump reads about saving a snake is a good example of generosity towards evil.
And one final thought on all this. War is a brutal & savage business. We win wars by killing more of them than they kill of us and instilling fear of greater retribution for aggressive and brutal attacks. To try and fight a humane war is an oxymoron. Please don’t get me wrong. I abhor the premise of war as a means to achieve any goal. But, forced to use the weapons and means of war for defense of ourselves or others, mandates that we utilize psychological as well as the military might we possess to make it as short in duration as possible. We must be as brutal and savage, if not more so, of any opponent we are forced to engage in war, if we are to be successful in winning that war or preventing any opponent to consider the prospect of starting one with us.
Bob,
Well wrote.
Thanks,
John
I didn’t think it was so well wrote.
Gee, Bob, thanks for explaining to me on what warfare is all about. I thought I’d gained a little experience back in 1967, when I went to Vietnam as a Marine. I not only served in a war zone, I was in combat. I’ve got the Purple Heart. I’ve got the scars. I’ve got the DD-214. I know a little bit about the subject, from an experiential point of view. I don’t appreciate the condescension, although perhaps it wasn’t intentional. I’m sure you’re a well-meaning guy, as I’ve been told, and as I remind myself. By the way, if Trump is telling the story about rescuing the snake, it’s from a very old folk song. If you like that one, you might like the one about the Scotsman and the ribbon. They’re cute stories, but not really worthy of philosophical underpinning for serious issues.
First off, I meant no disrespect. In fact, I admire your courage and ability to survive and make it back home. And I was as angry as many of my age at that time about how our bravest and finest were treated when they came home.
I served as well from 1965 to 1969 (and have a DD-214), although I was lucky enough to not have gone to Viet Nam. Two mates ahead of me from Electrician’s School did though. Graduating 3rd in my class saved me from that fate. However, even though it is like trying to imagine being a Black Man, many of my friends and relatives shared those horrid stories of war, and some of the savage acts they performed to put fear into the enemy. So, although I did not suffer the fate, I do know something about it. Fingers, ears, but I guess you would know some about that. And I was told that VC and NVA were careful to stay away from those Troop.
That being said, I wonder about how that particular war was fought. I wonder if Military Men were given a free ,hand in deciding what tactics and methods could be used to defeat the enemy? History seems to say no. Political intervention and political correctness were practiced even then. Remember when a soldier could not fire his weapon until fired upon? How about cease fires, which the cadres used to reinforce and resupply? Or the Khe San debacle (where I lost a brother in law)?
Again, I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but combat experience is not a necessary requirement for voicing an opinion on methods for instilling fear and a psychological advantage in war or combat.
Thanks for your service. And I am glad you made it home. And apologize if my opinions or my method of expressing them offended you. But, I will hold my opinion that even that war that you so bravely served in, would have been won, if not for limitations put on our fighting men by trying to win a political war of attrition, rather than just kicking the shit out of them. Peace Bro.
Thanks, Bob. I had to tap out a couple words, but I’m over it. John McCain and I disagree that torture is the way to go. While I disagree with your contrary opinion, I certainly respect your right to express it. I’m certainly on board with kicking the shit out of the enemy. Torture has the appeal of vengeance, but I believe it detrimental overall. I appreciate your remarks. Peace back at ya.