“Lord, don’t they help themselves, y’all
But when the taxman comes to the door
It ain’t me
It ain’t me
I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no, no
It ain’t me
It ain’t me
I ain’t no fortunate one, no” — Creedence Clearwater Revival “Fortunate Son”
If what President Donald Trump is reported to have said about servicemen is correct, I’m enraged. I did enlist in the military. I did spill blood, quite a bit, actually. I still carry shrapnel, and have seven big scars from wounds, and three big scars from surgical treatment of the wounds.I guess, if I’m a loser and a sucker, I am in good company. My father, my uncles, my cousins, and many friends, are, by that standard are, or were, losers and suckers too. One friend was killed in action. One friend suffered the loss of a testicle, and severe damage to the radial nerve of one arm. Another friend took a massive amount of shrapnel in the abdomen. Some were not physically wounded, but it may be safe to say none were psychologically unscathed by the experience. Some didn’t see combat, but they all served, some dems, some repubs, but all wore the uniform of our country. By Trump’s criteria, if you accept the report, all are losers and suckers.
Jeffrey Goldberg is a well-respected journalist who writes for a quality publication – The Atlantic. Goldberg cites multiple sources for his piece, all of whom wish to remain unnamed. Given the vindictiveness shown by Donald Trump, that makes sense.
Trump disparaged John McCain. He disparaged George H.W. Bush (for an account of Bush’s experience when shot down in WWII, see Sea of Thunder by Evan Thomas, a fine history of naval warfare in the Pacific).
Trump claimed, falsely, that helicopters couldn’t fly in the rain, nor could the presidential limo drive in the rain, when he canceled the planned visit to a military cemetery in France in 2018. His actual concern is attributed to his worry that his elaborate coiffure would become disheveled by the rain, according to reports. Sounds crazy, I know.
Here’s that article in case you missed it:
Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.
When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.
Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with first-hand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.”
In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
Belleau Wood is a consequential battle in American history, and the ground on which it was fought is venerated by the Marine Corps. America and its allies stopped the German advance toward Paris there in the spring of 1918. But Trump, on that same trip, asked aides, “Who were the good guys in this war?” He also said that he didn’t understand why the United States would intervene on the side of the Allies.
Trump’s understanding of concepts such as patriotism, service and sacrifice has interested me since he expressed contempt for the war record of the late Senator John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people that weren’t captured.”
There was no precedent in American politics for the expression of this sort of contempt, but the performatively patriotic Trump did no damage to his candidacy by attacking McCain in this manner. Nor did he set his campaign back by attacking the parents of Humayun Khan, an Army captain who was killed in Iraq in 2004.
Trump remained fixated on McCain, one of the few prominent Republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. When McCain died in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the f**k are we doing that for? Guy was a f**king loser,” the president told aides.Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral. (These sources, and others quoted in this article, spoke on condition of anonymity. The White House did not return earlier calls for comment, but Alyssa Farah, a White House spokesperson, emailed me this statement shortly after this story was posted:
“This report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans’ reforms, and supporting military spouses.”
Trump’s understanding of heroism has not evolved since he became president. According to sources with knowledge of the president’s views, he seems to genuinely not understand why Americans treat former prisoners of war with respect. Nor does he understand why pilots who are shot down in combat are honored by the military.
On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. (Bush escaped capture, but eight other men shot down during the same mission were caught, tortured and executed by Japanese soldiers.)
When lashing out at critics, Trump often reaches for illogical and corrosive insults, and members of the Bush family have publicly opposed him. But his cynicism about service and heroism extends even to the World War I dead buried outside Paris—people who were killed more than a quarter century before he was born. Trump finds the notion of military service difficult to understand, and the idea of volunteering to serve especially incomprehensible. (The president did not serve in the military; he received a medical deferment from the draft during the Vietnam War because of the alleged presence of bone spurs in his feet. In the 1990s, Trump said his efforts to avoid contracting sexually transmitted diseases constituted his “personal Vietnam.”)
On Memorial Day 2017, Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery, a short drive from the White House. He was accompanied on this visit by John Kelly, who was then the secretary of homeland security, and who would, a short time later, be named the White House chief of staff. The two men were set to visit Section 60, the 14-acre area of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in America’s most recent wars.
Kelly’s son, Robert, is buried in Section 60. A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices.
“He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”
I’ve asked numerous general officers over the past year for their analysis of Trump’s seeming contempt for military service. They offer a number of explanations. Some of his cynicism is rooted in frustration, they say. Trump, unlike previous presidents, tends to believe that the military, like other departments of the federal government, is beholden only to him, and not the Constitution.
Many senior officers have expressed worry about Trump’s understanding of the rules governing the use of the armed forces. This issue came to a head in early June, during demonstrations in Washington, D.C., in response to police killings of black people. James Mattis, the retired Marine general and former secretary of defense, lambasted Trump at the time for ordering law-enforcement officers to forcibly clear protesters from Lafayette Square, and for using soldiers as props: “When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Mattis wrote. “Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”
Another explanation is more quotidian, and aligns with a broader understanding of Trump’s material-focused worldview. The president believes that nothing is worth doing without the promise of monetary payback, and that talented people who don’t pursue riches are “losers.” (According to eyewitnesses, after a White House briefing given by the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joe Dunford, Trump turned to aides and said, “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?”)
Yet another, related, explanation concerns what appears to be Trump’s pathological fear of appearing to look like a “sucker” himself. His capacious definition of sucker includes those who lose their lives in service to their country, as well as those who are taken prisoner, or are wounded in battle.
“He has a lot of fear,” one officer with firsthand knowledge of Trump’s views said. “He doesn’t see the heroism in fighting.”
Several observers told me that Trump is deeply anxious about dying or being disfigured, and this worry manifests itself as disgust for those who have suffered. Trump recently claimed that he has received the bodies of slain service members “many, many” times, but in fact he has traveled to Dover Air Force Base, the transfer point for the remains of fallen service members, only four times since becoming president.
In another incident, Trump falsely claimed that he had called “virtually all” of the families of service members who had died during his term, then began rush-shipping condolence letters when families said the president was not telling the truth.
Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said.
We want to hear what you think about this article. Submit a letter to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com.JEFFREY GOLDBERG is the editor in chief of The Atlantic and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting. He is the author of Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror.
Wow! Goldberg’s article is traveling pretty fast. I just got wind of it today on FB from my Grandson-in-law (ex Navy). I definitely did my part and shared it along with a few choice emojis.
I have heard that Trump really doesn’t have any idea about how and why our military works. I sure believe it now.
In terms he would understand, does he realize how many votes he may lose for his idiocy? Now, in terms he would NEVER understand or care about, does he realize how hurtful and petty his comments are to those in service now, or previously served, or family members of those who didn’t survive.
Must be that military school his Daddy put him in didn’t help him any with common decency or empathy.
It’s really sad to see how wretched his life must be. I seriously doubt that he has any real friends that aren’t totally afraid of him. I guess it’s true – Money can’t buy happiness!
A BIG ROUND OF GOD’S BLESSINGS TO ALL WHO HAVE SERVED IN BATTLE AND BEHIND THE LINES FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY!
Basura, how could you be taken in by Washington bullshit? It will only get worse the closer to the election!
DTOM:
note: Business Insider logoFox News reported Trump never said that dead US troops were ‘suckers,’ but the network’s national security correspondent said ex-officials confirmed he did.
The Atlantic reported on Thursday that President Donald Trump made derogatory remarks about fallen members of the military, going so far as to call them “suckers” and “losers.”
Fox News on Friday said the report was fabricated and criticized The Atlantic’s use of anonymous sources.
However, one of its own — national security correspondent Jennifer Griffin — said parts of the damning report were verified to her by two people who previously worked for the Trump administration.
DTOM
Once again I remind you, “Often wrong, never in doubt.” There is no doubt that Trump is a coward, as proved by his many exemptions for “bone spurs” while remaining athleticaly active. Far too many people contributed to this article to label it Washington BS. Maybe you have to clear the garbage of being a Trump cultist out of your mind. I am a veteran and resent his language and I am sure he used it.
Mr. Beck,
Sir,
Please list the names of the far to many people who contributed to this article that makes it true. Looking forward to the list, thanks.
I read the Atlantic article it is full of unsourced assumptions.
Thank you in advance for the list of names.
Everyone was certain that the “Steele dossier” was legit as well…………..Keep listening to CNN and NPR and you will continue to look like a fool…………….
Cheers!!
Mr Beck,
Thank you for your service and kind, uplifting comments. You are a true gentleman.
If all these assertions were true, the guy that hated him most, John Bolton, said when asked about the article, he was on the trip and never heard President Trump utter those words. Don’t you think the guy that hated his boss would have pounced on that in his million plus selling book. What a scoop that would have been!
Your hate for the president is blinding your sense of judgement but I can relate. I had the same opinions of our first Marxist president, Obama, but i had them about what he displayed everyday. His visceral hate for the country which elected him was evident for 8 years. But “often wrong, never in doubt” has his day for opinions.
Don’t Tariff On Me:
The Associated Press, New York Times, Mr. LaPorte, and The Washington Post have all confirmed the story. There are first hand accounts of people having directly heard such comments from President Trump.
It certainly sounds like Donald Trump. Might there be a sad truth there? He denies it, of course, but there are multiple sources to the original story, and multiple confirmations.
As Mr. Traxler so aptly put it, there are no names attached to those hearing him say what was alleged to have been uttered by our Commander in Chief. No names, just heresay, and made-up election time bullshit!
Come on, you’re better than to believe that crap.
Mr. Basura,
Sir,
Other than the author of the story who was not in attendance, please provide human names, with first hand non hearsay information. I can not find “first hand” accounts or direct evidence it happened. I have read accounts from two people who were in attendance who stated it did not happen, Mr. Bolton and Ms. Sanders.
Did the President really say these things?
With his “bone spurs,” he was classified 4-F, ineligible for the draft. 1-A, 1A-O, 1-O were draft able with 1-O working in community service.
Those remembering or living from the start of the Vietnam war to the end of troop involvement, you either supported the effort or were against it… there was very little if any neutral ground.
If President Trump was anti-war at that time, to hear anyone speak unkindly about veterans of any war would seem reasonable. One has to remember that people die in war and a percentage are those classified as collateral damage (the supposedly innocent).
Vietnam was the war that changed the once patriotic, freedom loving peoples of the United States .
Do I think President Trump uttered those words? Of course, I do. It’s just the old once familiar adjectives resurfacing, when one speaks without thinking. One has to agree this President has used words that have enflamed many. Were they said on purpose or just came without thought?
Those in political office (without handlers or ignore their direction) end up getting quoted saying things better left unsaid.
Do I approve of his words? Of course not. He is just placed in the ranking of those who believe the same about our military veterans and their wars. Folks there are many more in our country who use those use those same words and they may even be someone you consider a friend.
Will this hurt his re-election? Probably not. Only because the Democratic Party can not come up with a suitable candidate to oppose him.
To my Democratic friends… try and get the party back on track. (There isn’t a baseball player that could pull the ball as far left as the party has gone).
Anyone that uses their charity foundation money on themselves is probably capable of doing many nasty things.His (Trump) foundation was blocked for that reason.
The irony of Don’t Read to Me / Ranger Rick claiming that something is not credible because no one has come forward to put their name in public.
Jakie, I live in your head rent free, just like President Trump.
Let it go, let it go!
Anonymous sources: check
People confirmed there denying it: check
Nothing new here folks..
Mr. Traxler:
Fox News confirmed that Trump dissed the military and veterans. They join New York Times, The Washington Post, Associated Press, and others in doing so. First hand sources are anonymous, which is understandable given Trump’s affinity for vindictiveness. Perhaps some will come forward; it’s up to them. There were multiple sources for the story, from a respected journalist writing for a respected publication. There are numerous confirmations. And don’t you think it sounds like Trump?
Basura, it is as true as Hillary saying Democrats are stupid and are easy to manipulate!
No corroboration needed, you know she thinks that. I saw it in print, so it must be true!
Goldberg is a political hack and will come up with anything to smear Trump. Biden needs to come out of the basement and debate. We will see a person of diminished capacity, one who needs medical and mental health help. His family should be ashamed they are putting an Alzheimer’s patient or the very least a dementia afflicted person through this campaign.
There are several constants observed. President Trump has a propensity to say things, then deny he has said them. Even if his remarks are on documented by video, audio and online with President Trump’s tweets, including what he said and tweeted about the late U.S. Senator John McCain. He’s later tried to deny those well documented derisive comments. Now it’s the same old “Fake News” claims. About the remarks made in France as well as the remarks he’s previously made about Senator McCain.
As the author has noted, Fox News has confirmed the President’s remarks along with other news outlets.
This is the guy who sat out Viet Nam because a doctor signed off on bone spurs, who told journalists his own Viet Nam was avoiding sexually transmitted disease while he was dating while others were in Viet Nam. The same guy who said if elected President he “wouldn’t have time to golf” yet has played more golf (all on his own courses on the government’s dime) than his predecessor. So far, at least 138 rounds of 18.
But there is a solid 40% of the U.S. electorate who will make excuses for Donald J Trump. Just remember Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932.
This is for Basura to address if you please:
You served and were wounded in Vietnam. When candidate Clinton sent a note in to the Army officer saying he “loathed” the military (and evidently you), did you vote for that POS?
Damn right you did, so quit crying crocodile tears about what a lefty hack said about Trump. I hated Clinton for his phony acting job and the same with Marxist Obama. Both were despicable scum and both made this country worse.
You refer to Obama as a Marxist? That seems a stretch. Do you say that because as a result of the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, 20 million more Americans have health care coverage? Or because preexisting conditions are no longer a valid criteria for dumping/excluding individuals from coverage? Or because dependents may remain on parental coverage until age 26?
Mr. Basura, the “Affordable Care Act” was anything but affordable. It threw some people into high, unsustainable health care premiums and others lost their doctors. It would have been cheaper to give every adult needing health care $5,000 each and leaving those with employee covered health care insurance alone.
When you were 26 were you a self-sustaining man, probably with a job, maybe a wife and and child or two, or did you live with mommy and daddy and live in the basement unemployed? I doubt it.
President Obama was and is a die hard Marxist because of his ideas and training. He learned from the best. He never, ever loved this country only for what it could do for him and Michelle, making them multimillionaires. He never much cared for the people; creating jobs, expanding opportunity, freedom, liberty, and getting people out of poverty and welfare. He turned his back on his race and left them to suffer. And he fomented the worst race relations we’ve ever had. His lies and inaction helped no one but him.
And where was he the night brave men defending the embassy in Benghazi were killed and we did absolutely nothing to support. Old Hillary was acting as the commander in chief that night and like everything she touched turns into disaster. Nobody asked “where’s Obama” because the psychophants and suckups the media are probably knew the answer.
I believe we are seeing selective Alzheimers when it comes to the history of the Affordable Care Act. Before the ACA was signed into law in March 2010, if you or your spouse or any of your children had a pre-existing condition your employer(s) had you over the barrel. You were tied to them or face losing insurance if your new employer’s health care provider considered their conditions too great of a risk. You might be hired, but would be required to pay a higher premium or in some cases sign a waiver which could last 12 to 36 months before disqualifying pre-existing conditions would be covered. Pre-existing conditions would include chronic illnesses like diabetes, hypertension, asthma, having been treated for cancer (of any kind).
For many working people, their family’s health care for children would cease when they were 18 and graduated from high school or had dropped out of school and were working at age 18. If your child continued their education going to a two-year, four-year or trade school and didn’t marry some employers would cover them as your dependent until age 22 and you had to document which college annually.
If you had a child in college before the ACA or went to college yourself you would remember the student insurance companies that had tables set up for freshman orientation and had been mailing you (or your parents) information on student health insurance. From $100-$300 per year you got a policy that covered very little and if you were injured or an illness put you in the hospital, your money got you a card to be admitted and the opportunity to be billed for all uncovered treatment. In the case of a friend of mine at Michigan State who was the son of a dairy farmer, a broken leg he got playing intramural flag football cost his family several thousand dollars the “student insurance” didn’t cover.
In my family’s case, my oldest went to grad school the health field and after an additional three years to get a degree and state licensed got a job paying $100K+ per year at age 26. We didn’t have to pay additional premiums for some insurance that covered very little because of the ACA my policy covered all of grad school. Hardly hiding in a basement being a deadbeat as the right wing echo chamber would lead one to believe.
Is it any coincidence neither the current President nor the US Senate majority leader have given repeal of the ACA no more than lip service? Reasons are twofold. The GOP has proposed nothing to replace it and its too damned popular with their own constituents. A guaranteed loser at the ballot box if you run saying you want to return to insurance companies playing the pre-existing condition game and remove coverage from thousands of families who have children 18 or older with multiple part-time jobs that don’t offer health insurance.
PS
Last I checked Hillary Clinton lost the 2016 election to Donald J Trump. Why aren’t Trump supporters talking up his diplomatic achievements with North Korea? Why aren’t they supporting the work he was doing to cut the deficit that grew nearly $1T BC (Before Covid) after the Tax Act of 2017. Why aren’t they talking up the major infrastructure plan that was promised and has never been heard from again?
But But But, Pelosi! President Trump had GOP majorities in the House and Senate from January 2017 through January 2019. The major achievement? The Tax Act of 2017 that increased the deficit so quickly that Secretary of Treasury Steve Mnuchin was asking Congress to raise the national debt ceiling in the summer of 2018. It’s 2016 redux for “conservatives”